Wednesday, January 2, 2008

The Debate with Apologetics Press Continues...

Hey Everyone! Do you guys remember the debate I had started with Apologetics Press? Well, I got a couple of messages in my mailbox, so I'll share them with you- with my responses, naturally:

Hello Ryan,
I am now back in the office and can respond
to your statements. There is an excellent
book on the subject of vestigial organs.
It is written by Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. and
George Howe, Ph.D. They quote Alfred Kinsey,
a respected author from the 1920s. I will
give you the entire quote: "is the collection
of small and useless structures which are always to be
found in species. Vestiges we call them.
They appear to be remnants of things that
were well developed and had some use among ancestral
organisms, but which have now almost
disappeared in more devoloped forms. . . .
Vestiges are similar to G's in English words
as reign and sign. The latter is not pronounced
in those words, and is now useless, but it is
positive evidence of their origin from the older
Latin words, regnum and signum" The authors also quote
Arthur Thompson, from 1958 in Riddles of Science:
"In our body we carry about several scores of
useless relics which tell us some things about the past."
It is an undeniable fact that many evolutionists
have taught that vestigial organs are "useless."
Those who attempt to alleviate the evolutionary
vestigial argument by changing the definition to
"not as good, but not useless" have been forced
to do so by the overwhelming evidence that
the organs are quite useful. In fact, the
"not as good" argument is false as well, which
doctors Bergman and Howe artfully show.
I hope you will post this on your blog,
as well as the title of Bergman and Howe's book:
"Vestigial Organs are Fully Functional." Thanks for writing.

Sincerely,
Kyle Butt

My response:

Hi Kyle,

I realize some people do think/thought vestigial
organs are totally useless. However, the quote I gave
you from Darwin supports the fact that evolutionists
have always realized vestigial organs aren't totally
useless. Talk Origins' 29 Evidences for MacroEvolution
discusses several definitions given in encyclopedias
and reference books from many time periods, from the
1980's to the 1950's and even before then.

Besides this, there are organs that we know of that
appear to serve no function, and are even COMPLETELY
GONE from large portions of the population. This is
what we would expect if the organ was useless and
beginning to "evolve away". Here are some examples:
NECK RIB
A set of cervical ribs—possibly leftovers from the age
of reptiles—still appear in less than 1 percent of the
population. They often cause nerve and artery
problems.

SUBCLAVIUS MUSCLE
This small muscle stretching under the shoulder from
the first rib to the collarbone would be useful if
humans still walked on all fours. Some people have
one, some have none, and a few have two.


PALMARIS MUSCLE
This long, narrow muscle runs from the elbow to the
wrist and is missing in 11 percent of modern humans.
It may once have been important for hanging and
climbing. Surgeons harvest it for reconstructive
surgery.

PLANTARIS MUSCLE
Often mistaken for a nerve by freshman medical
students, the muscle was useful to other primates for
grasping with their feet. It has disappeared
altogether in 9 percent of the population.


THIRTEENTH RIB
Our closest cousins, chimpanzees and gorillas, have an
extra set of ribs. Most of us have 12, but 8 percent
of adults have the extras.
Source

Sincerely,
Ryan

1 comment:

Paul said...

Dont't forget the vestigial ear muscles