AiGbusted is dedicated to exposing creationist hoaxes, especially the leading organization, Answers in Genesis.
Cloudy logic my friend, but then what would I expect since the Bible says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. I fear you've not read the first chapter of the book of Job where we learn that it actually is Satan himself who puts his hand on Job's life and then turns and trys to blame God for the evil he himself did. Now, where have I heard someone try to do that before???
Hi Pastor P,I don't think that Dan Barker's point is undercut by the fact that the book says that Satan caused Job's trouble. After all, the book also says that Satan had to get God's permission in order to do these things, which means that God is still responsible because he gave permission to such acts. I do not recall Satan blaming God for the evil he committed on Job, could you please cite chapter and verse for me please?Best wishes, Ryan
Ryan, Thank you for posting my comment. I do disagree with the premise that by God removing a hedge of protection from Job's life that it is the same as God doing the evil and harm that was done to Job. What we do learn from the story is the true cause behind the evil that saturates our world. It would be the same to me if I were to say because the Sheriff stopped patrolling my street that he caused the thief to break into my home and steal what was mine. To assign God as morally corrupt (as the speaker does) is simply not an honest assessment of the whole narrative of the book of Job. Especially when the final chapter is left off the discussion where God we are told "blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning. As to the temptation to believe that God had caused his troubles it is evident this is Job's attitude as found in the 19th chapter and the first dozen or so verses. Since James tells us that God does not tempt anyone with evil it is likewise logically evident that Satan had become the source of the temptation of Job to doubt the goodness and mercy of God. Strangely enough even today we are quick to blame God for all the evil in the world around us and seldom see Him as the source of the blessings that most of us enjoy every day. As a believer I am sometimes amazed at the amount of effort and expense that so many atheists expend in trying to move believers from one system of faith to their system of faith. It does indeed require faith to disbelieve in God as it does to believe. As a friend of mine once said, "I'd be an atheist but I don't have that much faith." I often want to ask, what difference does it make to you if I beleive or not? If you choose not to believe I'm happy to let you choose your faith and disbelief. However, since we all are leaving here someday I just think it's important to embrace a faith that will bring you a measure of peace when you're about to expell your final breath. Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts. Blessings! Richard
"It would be the same to me if I were to say because the Sheriff stopped patrolling my street that he caused the thief to break into my home and steal what was mine."I don't think that this is the same. Think if the Sheriff had known that your house was going to be robbed and still decided not to patrol the block. Would you not be angry with him or consider him to have done something wrong?"To assign God as morally corrupt (as the speaker does) is simply not an honest assessment of the whole narrative of the book of Job. Especially when the final chapter is left off the discussion where God we are told 'blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning.'"What you said about Job is correct, but I don't see how that mitigates the problem. Deliberately causing harm when it wasn't necessary and then causing goodness is not alright. After all, it isn't OK to beat your daughter as long as you take her to Disneyworld afterward."As a believer I am sometimes amazed at the amount of effort and expense that so many atheists expend in trying to move believers from one system of faith to their system of faith. It does indeed require faith to disbelieve in God as it does to believe."I disagree on both points. If you think about it, it is not amazing that people write so much about this. As an "armchair philosopher" myself, I take joy in trying to answer all kinds of philosophical questions, and so discussing the arguments about God is important and fascinating, if only to get at the truth, even if that truth has no effect on our day-to-day lives.But more to the point, I think you can understand a lot of practical considerations that atheists have for arguing their case. Imagine if you lived in a country where most people believed in Hinduism. Imagine that lots of people chose the way the voted and they way they behaved towards other people based on what was written in Hindu scriptures. Imagine that you considered some of those behaviors to be manifestly immoral. Would it not be worth your time to show that Hinduism was false (if you had good arguments to back it up)? That's the situation we atheists feel like we're in. People believe and are teaching their kids about a horrible place called hell to instill a deep-seated fear in them. These kids will then believe that some of their best friends and people that they care about might be going there if those people do not repent before they die.People aren't treating gays equally, something which is reinforced (if not caused) by Christian belief.And beliefs that the end of the world is near and Jesus will soon come back may cause people not to take care of planet earth so that it will be habitable in 100 years. In fact, apocalyptic beliefs could even cause people to initiate wars, believing that the beginning of such a war will be the beginning of the apocalypse, and not something to be feared, as it is.Now, I know you don't believe that Christianity is false, but I think you could agree that IF Christianity is in fact false, then the above are ample reason for atheists to speak out and try to change some minds.And I don't believe it is an issue of faith. I believe that my worldview is genuinely better supported by far than any other. Just go back to my blog and read about the book I've just published. That book has plenty of info about why I believe that.Sincerely,Ryan
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