Thursday, November 29, 2007

John Baumgardner Makes a Fool of Himself

You may not be familiar with John Baumgardner, so to give you his backround, he is a young earth creationist who invented a catastrophic model of plate tectonics. He joined Theology Web's Forum, and has been responding to one of critics on the site. Fortunately for us, Glenn Morton comes along to put John in his place:

"Ok, John, I have stayed out of it up until now. Such a statement is simply nonsense. there is no evidence of a global flood in the rocks. A 36,500 foot pile of sediment (which is not exceptional) means that 100 feet per day of sediment must have been deposited ON AVERAGE during a one year flood. That means 4 feet per hour. Most burrowers can't burrow that quickly and would quickly be burried.

Ophiomorpha, a burrower in marine sediments lines its burrows with its fecal pellets. Why do we see fecal pellets lining a burrow in Jurassic sediments of the North Sea (see picture below). Why can I regularly find burrows throughout an entire well bore? Burrows in these wellbores occupy thousands of feet of sediment.


But here are a couple of pictures for you. The jurassic ophiomorpha burrow with fecal pellets lining the burrow and one of the core photos with thousands of feet of burrowed sediment. Please explain how this happens in a global flood.

John, there is NO evidence of a global flood in the rocks."

Eventually, John gets tired of debating and resorts to ranting and raving against those who do not accept a literal interpretation of the bible:

"One thing that strikes me in this interaction is how little respect for God and His Word exists in this place. Most seem oblivious that they face a judgment before a terrible Judge who will not look upon their mockings and blasphemies lightly. One of those this Judge carefully mentored wrote "that in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts and saying, 'Where is the promise of His [that is, the Judge's] coming?'" This spokesman for the Judge predicted the sort of mocking I have observed on this site. But observe the excuse for their mocking the idea of the Judge's return: "For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." They appeal to a uniformitarian understanding of the earth and its past in which there has been no divine intervensions in the realm of the physical. The spokesman then points out that to make such an appeal these mockers are being willfully ignorant of God's destruction of the world by water in the Flood. This passage in 2 Peter 3:3-6predicts a future time when mockers, by willful ignorance of God's horrendous judgment of the world recorded in Genesis 6-8,instead adopt a materialist interpretation of physical world that excludes divine action past or future. I therefore with trembling appeal to you to turn from this Satanic snare and be saved from the certain loss into which it leads.

The Bible does not equivocate concerning the reality that the Flood was physical judgment of the entire planet. The words mean what they say, regardless of the protests the scoffers may throw up. Christians are also playing with fire when they willfully 'sit in the seat of scoffers' and advocate a hermeneutic that in effect makes God a liar.

So despite all the scoffing and ridicule, based on the confidence I have in who the Judge is and also on my awareness of the Bible's integrity and reliablity, I stand on my conclusion that the Flood was a world-destroying cataclysm responsible for all but the topmost portion of the Phanerozoic rock record. There will be a day when the truth of this matter evident to all. Pascal frequently spoke to his friends in terms of his famous wager. This is a different wager, but you all now know where I have placed my entire lot of chips."

(Emphasis mine)

Well, you heard the man. It doesn't matter what evidence comes to light, he is sticking with his faith and interpretation of the bible. This kind of blind, violently dedicated faith should scare us. Just what kind of person will not change their minds even when their beliefs are bankrupt and all of the evidence is against them? This type of nonsense reaches millions of children, teenagers, and young adults via AiG and ICR's magazines and websites. One thing is for certain: This is not good.


Unknown said...

A YEC says something foolish. I am shocked! Shocked, I say!

Romeo Morningwood said...

Thank You for doing all of this heavy lifting. I watched Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial this week:
"Science is 'Exhibit A' in a landmark trial on the teaching of evolution."
When I see programs like this it always gives me hope that our species can put this behind us and take a realistic look in the mirror.

The hard core Creation-Millenialists are getting nervous because they have nowhere to go but down..that being said I try to remember that you can catch more flies with honey.

It's not easy to admit that you are wrong when your entire cosmology hangs in the is almost impossible to debate facts against faith because faith is the substance of things not's brilliant in it's simplicity.

I just hope that someday maybe my children will see some light at the end of the tunnel. There is going to be a lot of 'fire insurance conversion' going on when the 80 million baby boomers start checking out.

Thanks again for such thoughtful concise reasoning. I am very impressed and will return to scan your archives.

Anonymous said...

Even if the flood story of Noah is totally debunked, it does not prove God a liar. Indeed, there is no evidence at all that God authorized any part of the Bible, including the Book of Genesis.

Anonymous said...

You are right, Dale. God could still exist, even if the Bible is proven false.

AIGBusted said...

Yes, it could be that Genesis was meant metaphorically, or that an entirely different God than the one in the bible exists. I think there isn't much of a case for one, but I'm aware that a God could exist.